If you want to view the other logs from this conference, they are available on the UGN site.
| siren | Hello KOSH people. Could you please introduce yourselves and the project. |
| Pseudo | hello. A lot of guys from u :-)) |
| MetalJoe | John here :-) |
| Bridge | Greg, Metaljoe and myself here to answer anything KOSH related |
| Greg | It seemed easier to get our bases covered this way! |
| MetalJoe | aye :-) |
| Bridge | Myself - Environmental Scientist + IT Tech. for my job - in "spare" time am the KOSH General Mailing List Scribe |
| Pseudo | For Questions: /msg Pseudo ? |
| Greg | 3rd year Compueter Science Student, KOSH Webguy and general loudmouth! |
| MetalJoe | for those who are'nt aware, the KOSH website is currently at http://kosh.convergence.org |
| Pseudo | Queue: DarkHawke dUn3cHiLd Syke |
| Bridge | To introduce KOSH - Kommunity Oriented Software and Hardware (or Kommunity Operating System and Hardware - both OK) |
| BobF | will petro be back at all 2dya? |
| DarkHawke | So what does KOSH see as its role in the Amiga community in light of recent events and the advent of groups like COSA and the Phoenix Consortium? |
| Greg | Among other sites. Also http://www.iconimaging.net/kosh/ |
| Bridge | 2 things... |
| Bridge | KOSH is offering itself as "yet another" alternative to Windows/Mac/LinuX/Amiga OS - all with inherent flaws |
| Bridge | KOSH includes a large number of current and ex Amigans |
| Bridge | ga |
| Greg | We're not just a project to replace Amigas, we're out here to replace everything ! GA |
| Pseudo | hehe |
| Bridge | Suggested - visit the website Greg just mentioned for an intro to KOSH |
| MetalJoe | hehe |
| Pseudo | Queue: dUn3cHiLd Syke |
| MetalJoe | there's also a relationship with Fleecy Moss' Amino project |
| Greg | Which we can't go into now. Sorry. |
| Bridge | and b4 u ask yes we see KOSH as everything from Graphics Workstations to kettles |
| Bridge | ga |
| Greg | Oops, GA. dUn3cHiLd? |
| BobF | l8er |
| Bridge | Seriously though - KOSH has been around for a long time as a set of ideas and concepts - Fleecy having a lot of them:) |
| Bridge | In the last yearish KOSH has become gradually something more concrete with actual development taking place |
| Pseudo | Queue: Syke petrol |
| Bridge | KOSH will take a -long- time to get to where -we- want to be (and "we" is anyone who wants to be involved) however we can see within the next year or 2 having actual running systems |
| Greg | Yes, one thing to consider here is that it's a much bigger project than some. |
| Bridge | very much so |
| Bridge | sorry we're jabbering away - next question plz:) |
| MetalJoe | after all, we're working from scratch with some new ideas |
| Pseudo | When you have finished a question totally, please type ga |
| Bridge | ga |
| Greg | I admire AROS and Linux greatly for what they've done, but there's a clear target there. With us, we're designing _everything_. |
| Greg | GA. |
| Syke | What's happened with KOSH (been quiet lately)? What have you been up to? GA |
| Greg | All sorts of things :) |
| Greg | We've lost some time with our server (and som mailinglists) dying over the summer and some stuff hasn't worked out, |
| Bridge | From me <=> an apology that the Mailing List summaries slowed down and dried up a bit for the General list |
| Bridge | However they're back from this week |
| Greg | but we're still working. Current main project is to go through what we've discussed and presnet it topic-by-topic so it's easier to work from - plus go into proper detail |
| Greg | rather than just rabbiting away. GA |
| MetalJoe | We've been working on developing the infrastructure needed, while Fleecy and a select group have been planning the kernel partner, object sea design and so on |
| petrol | two things: what is KOSH and will it be a system like amiga was 15 years ago ? :) ga. |
| Bridge | To pick up on Greg's point - the loss of "kosh.net" amongst the heady world of DNS was a blow - it slowed everything and made group discussion difficult |
| Bridge | Thanks to many must be said <= people have worked hard to improve the situation (Thanks particularly to Jason Radford) |
| Bridge | ga |
| Pseudo | Queue: JPJ |
| MetalJoe | petrol: that's the aim. It'll be very object-oriented, like parts of AmigaOS are GA |
| Greg | also designed around user needs and run for them - see the information docs on the website for details. GA |
| JPJ | From checking your website quickly, so seem to have very, very ambitious plans. What do you feel is the reason that you will succeed where other (large) companies won't tread (eg Amiga inc not making the MMC)? |
| Greg | JPJ: some of the plans have been scaled back :) |
| Bridge | very much so - in the short term. |
| Bridge | About 6 months ago we got talking about KOSH being in everything - the Object Sea being everywehere |
| Pseudo | Queue: petrol |
| Greg | The timescale in particular required massive effort, and we couldn't organise that well enough. |
| MetalJoe | Well, it is ambitious. However, we have a lot of ambitious people - and some great support from the likes of Dave Haynie, Fleecy Moss & Amino, as well as various Amiga developers. GA |
| Bridge | but we have realised we need to concentrate on getting the thing to work at a simple level before going large |
| Greg | GA |
| Bridge | Dave Haynie and Fleecy Moss (and others) have been very helpful in pushing the project |
| Bridge | One reason why it will not die was shown recently... |
| petrol | are there any specifics about kosh-systems and where to find them? ga |
| Bridge | kosh.net disappeared for a couple of months but when it (as iconimaging) resurfaced all manner of "KOSHans" reappeared |
| Pseudo | Queue: JPJ |
| Greg | Petrol - the website's got any information that's out there - if it doesn't answer questions, it's covered with mailto: links :) |
| Greg | Sorry if that sounds like I'm fobbing you off, but there's loits of details there. GA |
| Bridge | Petrol, we are behind schedule due to losing the DNS and I think being overambitious to start with. However as Greg says there are details on the website - more to follow and the ML summaries containg further info |
| MetalJoe | petrol: hardware-wise no. The OS side of things will be publicised more over the coming months GA |
| Bridge | ga |
| JPJ | Could you paint in a nutshell what the 'simple level' consists off? (remember: kosh novice). Also, do you have any relation to Phoenix, or do you plan to make on? GA |
| Greg | JPJ: Imagine a system where everythinhg is an object. |
| Greg | Now, imagine that all the interfaces are visible. |
| Pseudo | For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ? |
| Greg | Now, imagine not having to worry about file formats - you just use the methods defined in the OS to handle it all, |
| Greg | rather like datatypes on steroids :) |
| MetalJoe | think datatypes, boopsi and so on |
| MetalJoe | as for phoenix... |
| Bridge | BTW if anyone wants to ask, I'm particularly interested in fielding questions on KOSH "v" Amiga (will KOSH kill Amiga? will KOSH-hosted be ported to Amiga? What does KOSH think of Amiga? etc) |
| Greg | Now, imagine that the system's designed for networking and linking various object seas. |
| Greg | Sound fun enough? GA |
| MetalJoe | I'm a member of Phoenix and we welcome any partnership between the two. We're in this together :-) GA |
| petrol | what`s your www address ? |
| Bridge | ga |
| MetalJoe | kosh.convergence.org |
| Greg | and http://www.iconimaging.net/kosh/ |
| Bridge | http://kosh.convergence.org for the purists:) |
| MetalJoe | of course :-) |
| Greg | Convergence are in the UK IIRC, Icin Imaging in the US. Use whichever is faster TBH |
| Pseudo | OK, Bridge: I'm asking you this questions ;-) |
| Bridge | certainly |
| siren | Just a quick note to let you know, that previous logs (AROS, COSA, Blittersoft, Titan and Petro of Amiga) are now online at http://ugn.amiga.org/events/hew99.shtml. Future logs will also appear there later. |
| Pseudo | Queue: JPJ petrol |
| Bridge | go ahead and ask Pseudo:) |
| Pseudo | shall I type everything again? ;-) |
| Pseudo | Will you kill Amiga? |
| MetalJoe | certainly not, or I would be doing it! |
| MetalJoe | I can't speak for the others though ;-) |
| MetalJoe | GA |
| JPJ | So, are you doing what the OE is supposed to do, and more, but not as a separate layer but built into the core OS with hardware provisions? Oh, and 'Will KOSH be ported to AmigaOS 3.5?" ;-). What are your thoughts on a possible port of AmigaOS to PPC on IBM CHRP designs, as mentioned here? GA |
| Bridge | If you mean will "I" (me, Bridge) kill it, then no way - KOSH is a collective, without one bod on top. If you mean will KOSH kill Amiga - it can't - KOSH is about inclusion it includes any and all who are interested |
| MetalJoe | JPJ: It shares a lot with the original AmigaOS ideas, but with a proper OS... |
| Greg | I'd say we're doing some things the OE (from what I've seen) isn't. It's probably got ideas we haven't too. |
| MetalJoe | KOSH will initially be hosted on other systems like AmigaOS, Linux, Windows, whatever people want to support. |
| MetalJoe | Although a standalone version will be the ultimate aim. |
| Bridge | OK second Q I raised - "Will KOSH be ported to Amiga" - the answer is "if someone wants to" - we are planning "KOSHv1" to be hosted and run on top of other OSes - although this may change and this idea is not set in stone |
| MetalJoe | yep |
| petrol | what programming language will it be build of ? ga |
| Greg | Personally, I love POP and the PPC, and would say it'd be wonderful for the Amiga. |
| Bridge | KOSH v2 will be separate capable of running without being hosted |
| MetalJoe | ah, languages.... |
| Pseudo | Queue: OddBod BoXaSite |
| Greg | Petrol: No idea yet. Whatever our coders decide, when relevant. No need to tie ourselves down. |
| MetalJoe | It'll have to be portable and widely available. GA |
| Greg | Oops, GA |
| Bridge | Third question (any more pseudo?) "What does KOSH think of Amiga" - well many KOSHans are Amigans (I'm using my A1200 at the mo) and like the Amiga style - but have a problem with underdevelopment on the OS (although OS3.5 looks v nice and I'll be buying it soon). |
| Greg | OddBod? GA |
| Bridge | It's all down to personal opinion - KOSH includes all (Mac users, Linux users, etc etc) |
| Bridge | ga |
| Pseudo | OddBod: go ahead, please |
| OddBod | Don't you think that having such an all encompassing project will ultimately doom it to failure?? Nobody else who has attempted it has made any visible progress what makes u guyz different? |
| Pseudo | Queue: BoXaSite JPJ scones |
| Greg | Oddbod: Pardon? There's other projects that've been developed from scratch. |
| Bridge | KOSH cannot fail. But to be honest - it would not have succeeded if it had not been slowed down. Instead of spiralling into vapourware we are now starting to produce something concrete |
| Greg | I accept we're amitious and this is a huge job, but that's how you get to the next level - by throwing away the olf baggae. |
| Bridge | KOSH will succeed because it -will- be something for everything - the object sea allows this |
| Bridge | Not everything will be available at the start though (like Linux for eg) |
| MetalJoe | I think our secret has been to build up slowly, and not make claims of being able to accom;ish everything in one massive chunk |
| Greg | Note that Bridge is referring to designs not code :) |
| Greg | GA |
| Pseudo | Queue: BoXaSite JPJ scones |
| Bridge | but gradually we will build and build - from a small village to a metropolis - all floating and swimming on the sea |
| BoXaSite | Bridge: it sounds like Kosh in software form is similar to AI/Gateway Amiga Object lang thats coming? GA |
| Bridge | ga |
| OddBod | So u r hoping 4 java style success? |
| Bridge | BoXaSite - yep it sounds like it doesn't it! (read on)... |
| Bridge | I was quite suprised to read postings from Amiga/Amiga Magazines stating about Amiga Objects - I thought they sound just like KOSH |
| Bridge | as I know nothing about them beyond that though I can't comment |
| Bridge | ask me next year:P |
| MetalJoe | oddbod: in a way, yes. Java is quite an appropriate analogy too. GA |
| Bridge | ga |
| Pseudo | Queue: JPJ scones |
| JPJ | So, essentially, you are going to compete with the AmigaOE and Amiga INC, without becoming Amiga inc;-) Any thoughts on Sun partnering with Sony to develop devices that communicate through JINI? Also, any plans to talk to QNX/Phase 5 about KOSH on QNX/Amirage? GA |
| Greg | JPJ: THe main difference to remember is that we're not looking to build a conventional company. |
| Bridge | I don't think we are going to compete with AmigaOE - well maybe with KOSHv1 as that will be hosted (but the features of each will most likely be different) but with KOSH v2 (non-hosted) we will have to see |
| MetalJoe | JPJ :-) Well, we're not really in it to compete with anyone, we're all enthusiasts and developers looking to be a good, solid system. |
| Pseudo | Queue: scones DarkHawke |
| Greg | Essentially, we're probably closest to a mutual financial society - no shareholders, run for the benefit of the developrts, users and retailers. |
| Bridge | yes - read the details on KOSH virtual credits on the website |
| Bridge | ga |
| scones | will kosh make advertise to introduce its system to the masses ? GA |
| Greg | And we'll happily talk to anyone who wants to implement KOSH on a particlar HW platform GA |
| Greg | Scones: When we've got somethign of interest to the masses, sure. |
| Bridge | KOSH already is advertising (subtley...) - messages go out regularly to a number of organisations (including Amiga magazines, web sites, etc) |
| Greg | If we announce ourselves too loudly before that, we become vapourware, which doesn't exactly serve the users too well. |
| MetalJoe | Yep, we have PR and marketing people on the team, so they'll be working on their own contribution to promoting KOSH GA |
| Bridge | I agree totally with what Greg just said! |
| Bridge | That is the nutshell! |
| MetalJoe | Aye |
| DarkHawke | Y'all no doubt go into this at your website, but just briefly here, what is this "object sea" you're talking about? GA |
| Bridge | ga |
| Pseudo | For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ? |
| Greg | If you want the real details, see Dave Haynie I'm afraid - he's the inventor of that one. |
| MetalJoe | Think of it as a large collection of objects... |
| Greg | Broadly, it's what I was discussing above. Everything's done as an object, everyhthing can be linked, inherited and used by anything else. |
| MetalJoe | representing datatypes, applications, files... |
| MetalJoe | a fully object-oriented environment. If that makes sense :-) |
| Bridge | ga |
| MetalJoe | GA |
| Greg | The filetype thing is probably the best example - everything's automatically done via a severely enhanced datatypes system, making integration far easier. |
| Greg | GA |
| Pseudo | Queue: scones JPJ |
| scones | which software copanies agreed to produce ( special interrest in graphical ones ) GA |
| Greg | Scones: Meaning what? What developers to we have on board? |
| Bridge | I'm not sure I understand the q - if you mean "who do we have signed and comitted to a contract" then no-one at the moment - much too early for that! |
| scones | will u programm everything yourself ? |
| Greg | Scones: No, that's silly. We're not that overambitious ;) |
| scones | or will some 3rd ppl make some software as adobe or |
| MetalJoe | we'll have applicatiosn developers.. but at the moment htose who have signed up are working on the OS. |
| scones | .. ga ( out of knowledge of new comapnies ::) ) |
| scones | GA |
| Bridge | In front of you are 3 people from KOSH talking to you - along with us are dozens more directly involved and dozens beyond that with an active interest. KOSH borrows something from Linux here (while not being open source) in that ANYONE can code who wants to - we actively encourage that! |
| Greg | Just that ATM there's no real point in soliciting for developers when we can't show them a system to work for. |
| MetalJoe | It's a case of one step at a time GA |
| Greg | GA |
| Bridge | ga |
| JPJ | In the long run, to sustain the organisation, you'll need sales. What are your plans for attracting developers for KOSH (at least v2) and how do you intend to get driver support? Are the current developers all ex-amiga developers? GA |
| Pseudo | For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ? |
| Greg | JPJ: No, not everyone's an ex-amigan |
| Bridge | Current developers are from a wide range of backgrounds (including Amigans) |
| Greg | TBH, right now we're concentrating on two things - finding out what the users and developers want from a platform, then building it for them. |
| MetalJoe | we have Mac, UNIX, Be, QNX developers... |
| Greg | GA |
| Bridge | Attracting developers will take place at a later stage - we had a very long discussion on the mailing list about this! |
| Bridge | Oops - I should say "attracting developers beyond what we have now" |
| MetalJoe | heheh |
| MetalJoe | rumbled ;-) |
| Bridge | and that what we have now is good *removes foot from hole* |
| Greg | Two URLs to help people - /info/index.html describes KOSH |
| MetalJoe | spot the webmaster ;-) |
| MetalJoe | As for driver support.. |
| Greg | while /mailinglists/kgsums.html gives the summaries of the main list |
| Pseudo | For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ? |
| Greg | Prefix both with either http://kosh.convergence.org or http://www.iconimaging.net/kosh/ |
| Greg | That should help with several questions in more depth than we can do here. |
| Greg | GA |
| Bridge | Driver support comes in several ways. Firstly someone may say "I need xxx" to work and they write it themselves, secondly they could get someone else in KOSH to do it for them (for some Virtual credits or cash), thirdly KOSH could spot a weakness in an area of drivers and commission someone to produce the items required. |
| MetalJoe | the hosted versions, proposed by Dave Haynie, solves the problem initially - but we will have to obtain support for native device drivers. Fortunately we have many developers who can assist GA |
| Pseudo | For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ? |
| Bridge | The reason we are going for a hosted version first is partly (but -not- completely) that we can benefit from not having to write much in the way of drivers. |
| Bridge | g |
| Bridge | ga |
| Pseudo | queue is empty |
| MetalJoe | pseudo: that's either good, or bad ;-) |
| Bridge | OK a question to you listening to this - What do -you- personally or as an organisation want from KOSH, now or in the future? |
| Bridge | Tell us and we *will* take note (I'm logging this to sift through later) |
| Greg | Considering that this is run entirely for the users, developers and retailers - whatever they say, we jump |
| Pseudo | ok, klets go to unmoderated |
| Greg | and it's always good to have some fresh ideas. |
| scones | the system sounds good , wehn u accomplish your goals :) |
| MetalJoe | scones :-) |
| scones | ( sorry fot my english .. i`m only german : ) |
| Bridge | yes -when- (not if - I truly believe "when" is the correct term!) we achieve KOSH v1 we will be happy |
| MetalJoe | scones: better than my Deutsche :-( |
| Greg | Scones: Better than my German |
| Bridge | and when V2 comes out even happier - but it won't stop there. To give examples we have been discussing technologies for use in KOSH that won't be with us for decades |
| Greg | We'll roll out v1 when it's ready. No point in setting arbitrary deadlines |
| MetalJoe | yep, I think v1 will be a proud moment |
| qnxGuiBoy | Busy Busy! |
| Bridge | Again - inclusive of ideas, not exclusive |
| cYB0rG | i have certainly missed something , but what is KOSH exactely ? .. |
| Greg | Cyborg - sorry if this sounds dismissive, but look at the website - it can give you a far better picture than we can |
| _3Demon | hi! |
| Greg | And I'm not just plugging my own work - I wrote very little of that. |
| greenboy | good job fellas! |
| MetalJoe | KOSH is a fully object-oriented OS, built by the community |
| cYB0rG | Greg: give the URL plz |
| MetalJoe | greenboy :-) |
| scones | in which directions will KOSH develop ? more internet or graphic ? .. what does it support better ? |
| ACEini | Question: Which Connector does the Blizzard 603e "+" has on the SCSI Side..?? |
| Bridge | KOSH is a fundamental change in the way modern computing works. KOSH will *NOT* dictate to you how you should use your computer (kbrd, mouse, etc - anything you want goes), it will not force you to upgrade or leave you stagnated. It *will* provide you with just the complexity that you desire. |
| Greg | two - either http://kosh.convergence.org (UK) or http://www.iconimaging.net/kosh/ (US) |
| MetalJoe | bridge: buzzword compliant ;-) |
| cYB0rG | thx |
| Bridge | Oh yeah - mental note to remember that:) |
| Greg | But bridge is actually very accurate here - we're not just building a desktop system here |
| Bridge | Sorry ACEini I can't answer that:) |
| ACEini | thx :-) |
| Greg | The idea is that, by abstracting _everything_ as objects, you only plug in what you need, so you get the services you want |
| drHirudo | HI AIOeditor ;-) |
| Greg | And not just a pile of stuff that the developers _think_ you need. |
| AIOeditor | hello |
| Bridge | Scones - KOSH will develop where you want it to - either by doing it yourself, commissioning someone to do it for you, or the Kommunity as a whole will move to develop areas as they become necessary |
| AIOeditor | OT : Scotland 0 - 2 England :)))) |
| MetalJoe | AIO: blimey |
| scones | is it some kind of second linux ? |
| Bridge | take note of what Greg says - you can plug in what you need. If you don't need it, why pay high prices for hardware that will run things that you don't need? |
| ^ego | There's a surprise... NOT |
| scones | but better? :) |
| Bridge | KOSH is VERY very modular! |
| qnxGuiBoy | :) |
| McDrill | hows the show going then? fun, nice? |
| _bladez_ | Bridge: ala AmigaOS? |
| Greg | Scones: No. Linux is just a redeployment of UNIX, which is nice but not perfect. |
| scones | ohh .. never known that :) |
| Kraftwerk | But isn`t KOSH still nothing but Vaporware? |
| Greg | The idea with us is that we want to make something that can be good for all. |
| Greg | Kraftwerk: call us that if you want. IT's got connotations that I don't like, but there's no OS you can run right now. |
| scones | at what price will it be sold and what`ll be the system requirements ? :) |
| Bridge | _bladez_ in a way - but more so that that. AmigaOS programmes still make you do things in certain ways, the ways the programmer saw fit. While toolbars, menus, etc etc can be customised easily (thanks in part to MUI) there is a limit to this |
| Greg | Kraftwerk again- think of us as more at the planning stage. |
| MetalJoe | kraftwerk: vaporware used to mean developments not intended to be produced... we're definitely wanting to produce it |
| Bridge | Kraftwek - KOSH would be vapourware if u had 3 people telling you rubbish about this fake thing. However you have 3 very sincere ppl in front of you that have seen development in KOSH actually happening (hand on heart) |
| AcidB|[S] | KOSH: AOS with Java Support ? |
| MetalJoe | scones: we can't say at this time - we're not aiming to be expensive or restrictive |
| Greg | Scones - it'll be sold at whatever price we feel necessary to cover our costs and allow for future developments - though NOT to pay corporate shareholders |
| MetalJoe | however |
| Kraftwerk | Wanting to produce and actually ever being able to are two different things. |
| _bladez_ | Bridge: ahh .. i see .. and OS which is totally customisable even the GUI |
| Bridge | I'm gonna have a great time summarising this:) |
| Greg | And it'll run on whatever we manage to get it working on. Remember, t's modular though. |
| MetalJoe | kraftwerk: we feel we have the backing to allow us to produce it, as well as the motivation |
| Bridge | More than that _bladez_ not just the OS GUI customisable (we alrd have GNOME, KDE, MUI, etc) but any possible thing in the entire setup |
| scones | ..... i`m learning turbo pascal and c++ in the moment .. will it be of use on the new system? :-) |
| MetalJoe | bridge: enjoy :-) |
| Kraftwerk | KOSH never gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling. |
| Bridge | right down to what shape keyboard you want (and yes we've discussed this) |
| _bladez_ | Bridge: i see ..just as i thought ..kewl :) |
| MetalJoe | kraftwerk: that's fine :-) |
| Greg | Bladez: Yes :) The idea is to make everything configureable - after all, not everyone needs a GUI so why should they have to run with the cost? |
| ^ego | Kraftwerk: Windows never gave me a warm fuzzy feeling, but that doesn't make it vapor |
| Bridge | scones - yes those 2 languages will be of use - KOSH should use all "standard" languages (wouldn't be inclusive if it didn't) as well as others |
| _bladez_ | Bridge: you could easily customise the kernel to suit your needs ..let alone the GUI :) |
| Greg | Kraftwerk: Sure, but that's not our intention. We may fail, but we're going to try and it's going to be fun trying. |
| MetalJoe | No one's forcing KOSH onto anyone.. in a way it goes against the whole philodophy |
| MetalJoe | oops |
| MetalJoe | philosophy :-) |
| scones | ok thx .. everything logged .. gotta go .. bye ppl |
| MetalJoe | bye scones |
| Bridge | _bladez well I probably couldn't configure the kernel - I'm not that much a programmer. However if someone provided me with a tool I can understand at my level of expertise to manipulate the kernel, then yes I could |
| _bladez_ | Greg: sounds excellent. |
| Bridge | Scarey! |
| Greg | Metaljoe is a showoff ;) |
| MetalJoe | aye |
| MetalJoe | *boast* |
| _bladez_ | Bridge: i know what you mean .. playing around with the kernel can get rather technical ;) |
| Greg | But a nice guy with it |
| MetalJoe | it's been a while since I did it though |
| MetalJoe | :-) |
| MetalJoe | excellent |
| RaM | kosh is for new age amiga fags |
| Greg | Bladez - but a) should it be necessary to play with a kernel? |
| AIOeditor | Hey Iliak |
| Kraftwerk | Well. feel free to prove me wrong! In the mean time I`ll be fahr`n, fahr`n, fahr`n auf der Amigabahn.. :) |
| Bridge | _bladez_ exactly - if I want to change a fundamental thing in my setup I should be able to a) do it with command lines, c++, etc etc and the kernel or b) ina simpler way that hides me from things I (because of my non-kernelesque background) find scarey |
| Greg | and b) should it always be comples? |
| MetalJoe | RaM: hehe |
| ^asp^ | hi `Ants |
| Greg | Kraftwerk: Fine, doesn't bother us. We're going to have fun trying! |
| Greg | And Greg's a Christian |
| abrasax | modern day system should have a nucleus kernel with well described kbi (kernel binary interface) to make the rest of the layers hw independent |
| Greg | Abrasax - from what I understand of that, definitely. |
| Bridge | We've talked mostly about software here (drivers for HW excluded). Perhaps I should point out that KOSH hardware will become a reality in the fullness of time (no time scale yet folks though) |
| _bladez_ | Bridge/Greg: i see ... i suppose you can take it to the level you can handle it at. |
| Greg | There's not really all that much that should live in the kernel |
| Bridge | yes |
| Bridge | And as your expertise improves you can increase the complexity of the system (almost like increasing the volume of aa speaker) |
| MetalJoe | greg: aye.. monolithic kernels are not good these days. Linux will probably be the last major example IMHO |
| Greg | Bladez - that's the dream :) We'll see what we manage nearer the time, but we're going to give that a good try. |
| Kraftwerk | Will there be a KOSH version that will run on Legacy Amigas? |
| MetalJoe | kraftwerk: well, I'm planning to work on getting KOSH hosted on AmigaOS so yep |
| Greg | Kraftwerk - most seem to want it, so probably. But we're not going to let ourselves be tied down by that as a baseline. |
| Bridge | We have been thinking of a way to automate the complexity with some sort of "Assistant" object (NOT aka office assistant!!!!) |
| _bladez_ | Greg: kewl ... though it would be good to see something tangible, soonish ;) |
| RaM | "OS 3.5 - where did all the appicons go?" |
| MetalJoe | bridge: nooo! no paperclips! |
| Bridge | Kraftwerk - yes if I have anything to say about it! |
| MetalJoe | bladez: you and me both ;-) |
| Greg | We'll try and get _something_ running on AOS, but we're not going to remove features because we can't make them work on an Amiga. |
| Bridge | But I like paperclips *he says with sarcasm* |
| _bladez_ | MetalJoe: hehe |
| Kraftwerk | Good! I have 9 Amigas waiting for a new OS |
| MetalJoe | bridge: yer a strange lad |
| abrasax | metaljoe you have to invoke the hw depended layer somewhere along the road so that is where the nucleus kernel comes into place but things to a level about drivers shouldnt need to be aware of that.. |
| abrasax | IMHO |
| MetalJoe | fraftwerk: excellent |
| Kraftwerk | I think there are 9 of them anyway... I lost count. :) |
| MetalJoe | abrasax: aye |
| abrasax | about should be above even.. |
| _bladez_ | Greg: you just do like what AmigaObjects do. |
| zeg | i have got one AmigaOs still waiting for a new Hardware. |
| Bridge | BUT because we have chosen to be inclusive of all - then I even suggested we should support (in a cut down way) Spectrum 48ks (and I got taken seriously!) |
| Greg | Abrasax - definitely. The kernel should be the fundamental services. Drivers should be interfaing to it, not in it. |
| MetalJoe | bridge: hmmmm :-) |
| Bridge | Kraftwerk you have too many:) |
| Kraftwerk | 2 of them have PPC`s so give it to me! |
| MetalJoe | 8-bit Beowulf clusters anyone? ;-) |
| djes | There's some cases where it is impossible to interface drivers |
| Greg | Bladez - similar, but more all-encompassing. Mainly because the qhole systems' designed from scratch around that concept, but ther'es other things as well. Again, read the website :) |
| abrasax | greg for driver etc you need very good locking mechanisms and when writing those parts of the os interfacing/ interfering with it becomes a vague area :) |
| MetalJoe | Greg's our webmaster if you haven't guessed... |
| djes | Especially when your hard is old |
| Greg | Abrasaz & Djes - yes, some things are necessary in the kernel een if we might prefer them elsewhere for various reasons. But the idea is to keep it as small as possible. |
| Pseudo | oki |
| Kraftwerk | Do aa Userinfo to check out my Amiga Collection. |
| MetalJoe | djes: yep... supporting old hardware is a tricky problem |
| _bladez_ | Greg: i see as the idea will be instrinsic to the kernel of the OS. |
| MetalJoe | law of diminishing returns and all that |
| Pseudo | We switch to moderated now, since Phoenix is waiting |
| Bridge | If anyone would like a copy of the summaries to read up on what we have discussed (and how far we have got) plz see either the website or email me: kosh@mythicz.u-net.com and I'll send them to you. |
| djes | We must not |
| Greg | Bye! |
| MetalJoe | yep, bye and thanks to everyone |
| Bridge | bye all - thanks:) |
| Greg | Erm, greg@kosh.convergence.org GA |
| Bridge | I'll write up all your comments and KOSH will concsider them |
| siren | Thank you KOSH people. |
| Pseudo | Thx guys for the informations |
| MetalJoe | np :-) |
