IRC Conference logs

On the occasion of the Home Electronics World '99 conference in Cologne, KOSH were invited to take part in an IRC conference hosted by UGN. This is the log of that conference, for those who are interested.

If you want to view the other logs from this conference, they are available on the UGN site.

siren Hello KOSH people. Could you please introduce yourselves and the project.
Pseudo hello. A lot of guys from u :-))
MetalJoe John here :-)
Bridge Greg, Metaljoe and myself here to answer anything KOSH related
Greg It seemed easier to get our bases covered this way!
MetalJoe aye :-)
Bridge Myself - Environmental Scientist + IT Tech. for my job - in "spare" time am the KOSH General Mailing List Scribe
Pseudo For Questions: /msg Pseudo ?
Greg 3rd year Compueter Science Student, KOSH Webguy and general loudmouth!
MetalJoe for those who are'nt aware, the KOSH website is currently at http://kosh.convergence.org
Pseudo Queue: DarkHawke dUn3cHiLd Syke
Bridge To introduce KOSH - Kommunity Oriented Software and Hardware (or Kommunity Operating System and Hardware - both OK)
BobF will petro be back at all 2dya?
DarkHawke So what does KOSH see as its role in the Amiga community in light of recent events and the advent of groups like COSA and the Phoenix Consortium?
Greg Among other sites. Also http://www.iconimaging.net/kosh/
Bridge 2 things...
Bridge KOSH is offering itself as "yet another" alternative to Windows/Mac/LinuX/Amiga OS - all with inherent flaws
Bridge KOSH includes a large number of current and ex Amigans
Bridge ga
Greg We're not just a project to replace Amigas, we're out here to replace everything ! GA
Pseudo hehe
Bridge Suggested - visit the website Greg just mentioned for an intro to KOSH
MetalJoe hehe
Pseudo Queue: dUn3cHiLd Syke
MetalJoe there's also a relationship with Fleecy Moss' Amino project
Greg Which we can't go into now. Sorry.
Bridge and b4 u ask yes we see KOSH as everything from Graphics Workstations to kettles
Bridge ga
Greg Oops, GA. dUn3cHiLd?
BobF l8er
Bridge Seriously though - KOSH has been around for a long time as a set of ideas and concepts - Fleecy having a lot of them:)
Bridge In the last yearish KOSH has become gradually something more concrete with actual development taking place
Pseudo Queue: Syke petrol
Bridge KOSH will take a -long- time to get to where -we- want to be (and "we" is anyone who wants to be involved) however we can see within the next year or 2 having actual running systems
Greg Yes, one thing to consider here is that it's a much bigger project than some.
Bridge very much so
Bridge sorry we're jabbering away - next question plz:)
MetalJoe after all, we're working from scratch with some new ideas
Pseudo When you have finished a question totally, please type ga
Bridge ga
Greg I admire AROS and Linux greatly for what they've done, but there's a clear target there. With us, we're designing _everything_.
Greg GA.
Syke What's happened with KOSH (been quiet lately)? What have you been up to? GA
Greg All sorts of things :)
Greg We've lost some time with our server (and som mailinglists) dying over the summer and some stuff hasn't worked out,
Bridge From me <=> an apology that the Mailing List summaries slowed down and dried up a bit for the General list
Bridge However they're back from this week
Greg but we're still working. Current main project is to go through what we've discussed and presnet it topic-by-topic so it's easier to work from - plus go into proper detail
Greg rather than just rabbiting away. GA
MetalJoe We've been working on developing the infrastructure needed, while Fleecy and a select group have been planning the kernel partner, object sea design and so on
petrol two things: what is KOSH and will it be a system like amiga was 15 years ago ? :) ga.
Bridge To pick up on Greg's point - the loss of "kosh.net" amongst the heady world of DNS was a blow - it slowed everything and made group discussion difficult
Bridge Thanks to many must be said <= people have worked hard to improve the situation (Thanks particularly to Jason Radford)
Bridge ga
Pseudo Queue: JPJ
MetalJoe petrol: that's the aim. It'll be very object-oriented, like parts of AmigaOS are GA
Greg also designed around user needs and run for them - see the information docs on the website for details. GA
JPJ From checking your website quickly, so seem to have very, very ambitious plans. What do you feel is the reason that you will succeed where other (large) companies won't tread (eg Amiga inc not making the MMC)?
Greg JPJ: some of the plans have been scaled back :)
Bridge very much so - in the short term.
Bridge About 6 months ago we got talking about KOSH being in everything - the Object Sea being everywehere
Pseudo Queue: petrol
Greg The timescale in particular required massive effort, and we couldn't organise that well enough.
MetalJoe Well, it is ambitious. However, we have a lot of ambitious people - and some great support from the likes of Dave Haynie, Fleecy Moss & Amino, as well as various Amiga developers. GA
Bridge but we have realised we need to concentrate on getting the thing to work at a simple level before going large
Greg GA
Bridge Dave Haynie and Fleecy Moss (and others) have been very helpful in pushing the project
Bridge One reason why it will not die was shown recently...
petrol are there any specifics about kosh-systems and where to find them? ga
Bridge kosh.net disappeared for a couple of months but when it (as iconimaging) resurfaced all manner of "KOSHans" reappeared
Pseudo Queue: JPJ
Greg Petrol - the website's got any information that's out there - if it doesn't answer questions, it's covered with mailto: links :)
Greg Sorry if that sounds like I'm fobbing you off, but there's loits of details there. GA
Bridge Petrol, we are behind schedule due to losing the DNS and I think being overambitious to start with. However as Greg says there are details on the website - more to follow and the ML summaries containg further info
MetalJoe petrol: hardware-wise no. The OS side of things will be publicised more over the coming months GA
Bridge ga
JPJ Could you paint in a nutshell what the 'simple level' consists off? (remember: kosh novice). Also, do you have any relation to Phoenix, or do you plan to make on? GA
Greg JPJ: Imagine a system where everythinhg is an object.
Greg Now, imagine that all the interfaces are visible.
Pseudo For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ?
Greg Now, imagine not having to worry about file formats - you just use the methods defined in the OS to handle it all,
Greg rather like datatypes on steroids :)
MetalJoe think datatypes, boopsi and so on
MetalJoe as for phoenix...
Bridge BTW if anyone wants to ask, I'm particularly interested in fielding questions on KOSH "v" Amiga (will KOSH kill Amiga? will KOSH-hosted be ported to Amiga? What does KOSH think of Amiga? etc)
Greg Now, imagine that the system's designed for networking and linking various object seas.
Greg Sound fun enough? GA
MetalJoe I'm a member of Phoenix and we welcome any partnership between the two. We're in this together :-) GA
petrol what`s your www address ?
Bridge ga
MetalJoe kosh.convergence.org
Greg and http://www.iconimaging.net/kosh/
Bridge http://kosh.convergence.org for the purists:)
MetalJoe of course :-)
Greg Convergence are in the UK IIRC, Icin Imaging in the US. Use whichever is faster TBH
Pseudo OK, Bridge: I'm asking you this questions ;-)
Bridge certainly
siren Just a quick note to let you know, that previous logs (AROS, COSA, Blittersoft, Titan and Petro of Amiga) are now online at http://ugn.amiga.org/events/hew99.shtml. Future logs will also appear there later.
Pseudo Queue: JPJ petrol
Bridge go ahead and ask Pseudo:)
Pseudo shall I type everything again? ;-)
Pseudo Will you kill Amiga?
MetalJoe certainly not, or I would be doing it!
MetalJoe I can't speak for the others though ;-)
MetalJoe GA
JPJ So, are you doing what the OE is supposed to do, and more, but not as a separate layer but built into the core OS with hardware provisions? Oh, and 'Will KOSH be ported to AmigaOS 3.5?" ;-). What are your thoughts on a possible port of AmigaOS to PPC on IBM CHRP designs, as mentioned here? GA
Bridge If you mean will "I" (me, Bridge) kill it, then no way - KOSH is a collective, without one bod on top. If you mean will KOSH kill Amiga - it can't - KOSH is about inclusion it includes any and all who are interested
MetalJoe JPJ: It shares a lot with the original AmigaOS ideas, but with a proper OS...
Greg I'd say we're doing some things the OE (from what I've seen) isn't. It's probably got ideas we haven't too.
MetalJoe KOSH will initially be hosted on other systems like AmigaOS, Linux, Windows, whatever people want to support.
MetalJoe Although a standalone version will be the ultimate aim.
Bridge OK second Q I raised - "Will KOSH be ported to Amiga" - the answer is "if someone wants to" - we are planning "KOSHv1" to be hosted and run on top of other OSes - although this may change and this idea is not set in stone
MetalJoe yep
petrol what programming language will it be build of ? ga
Greg Personally, I love POP and the PPC, and would say it'd be wonderful for the Amiga.
Bridge KOSH v2 will be separate capable of running without being hosted
MetalJoe ah, languages....
Pseudo Queue: OddBod BoXaSite
Greg Petrol: No idea yet. Whatever our coders decide, when relevant. No need to tie ourselves down.
MetalJoe It'll have to be portable and widely available. GA
Greg Oops, GA
Bridge Third question (any more pseudo?) "What does KOSH think of Amiga" - well many KOSHans are Amigans (I'm using my A1200 at the mo) and like the Amiga style - but have a problem with underdevelopment on the OS (although OS3.5 looks v nice and I'll be buying it soon).
Greg OddBod? GA
Bridge It's all down to personal opinion - KOSH includes all (Mac users, Linux users, etc etc)
Bridge ga
Pseudo OddBod: go ahead, please
OddBod Don't you think that having such an all encompassing project will ultimately doom it to failure?? Nobody else who has attempted it has made any visible progress what makes u guyz different?
Pseudo Queue: BoXaSite JPJ scones
Greg Oddbod: Pardon? There's other projects that've been developed from scratch.
Bridge KOSH cannot fail. But to be honest - it would not have succeeded if it had not been slowed down. Instead of spiralling into vapourware we are now starting to produce something concrete
Greg I accept we're amitious and this is a huge job, but that's how you get to the next level - by throwing away the olf baggae.
Bridge KOSH will succeed because it -will- be something for everything - the object sea allows this
Bridge Not everything will be available at the start though (like Linux for eg)
MetalJoe I think our secret has been to build up slowly, and not make claims of being able to accom;ish everything in one massive chunk
Greg Note that Bridge is referring to designs not code :)
Greg GA
Pseudo Queue: BoXaSite JPJ scones
Bridge but gradually we will build and build - from a small village to a metropolis - all floating and swimming on the sea
BoXaSite Bridge: it sounds like Kosh in software form is similar to AI/Gateway Amiga Object lang thats coming? GA
Bridge ga
OddBod So u r hoping 4 java style success?
Bridge BoXaSite - yep it sounds like it doesn't it! (read on)...
Bridge I was quite suprised to read postings from Amiga/Amiga Magazines stating about Amiga Objects - I thought they sound just like KOSH
Bridge as I know nothing about them beyond that though I can't comment
Bridge ask me next year:P
MetalJoe oddbod: in a way, yes. Java is quite an appropriate analogy too. GA
Bridge ga
Pseudo Queue: JPJ scones
JPJ So, essentially, you are going to compete with the AmigaOE and Amiga INC, without becoming Amiga inc;-) Any thoughts on Sun partnering with Sony to develop devices that communicate through JINI? Also, any plans to talk to QNX/Phase 5 about KOSH on QNX/Amirage? GA
Greg JPJ: THe main difference to remember is that we're not looking to build a conventional company.
Bridge I don't think we are going to compete with AmigaOE - well maybe with KOSHv1 as that will be hosted (but the features of each will most likely be different) but with KOSH v2 (non-hosted) we will have to see
MetalJoe JPJ :-) Well, we're not really in it to compete with anyone, we're all enthusiasts and developers looking to be a good, solid system.
Pseudo Queue: scones DarkHawke
Greg Essentially, we're probably closest to a mutual financial society - no shareholders, run for the benefit of the developrts, users and retailers.
Bridge yes - read the details on KOSH virtual credits on the website
Bridge ga
scones will kosh make advertise to introduce its system to the masses ? GA
Greg And we'll happily talk to anyone who wants to implement KOSH on a particlar HW platform GA
Greg Scones: When we've got somethign of interest to the masses, sure.
Bridge KOSH already is advertising (subtley...) - messages go out regularly to a number of organisations (including Amiga magazines, web sites, etc)
Greg If we announce ourselves too loudly before that, we become vapourware, which doesn't exactly serve the users too well.
MetalJoe Yep, we have PR and marketing people on the team, so they'll be working on their own contribution to promoting KOSH GA
Bridge I agree totally with what Greg just said!
Bridge That is the nutshell!
MetalJoe Aye
DarkHawke Y'all no doubt go into this at your website, but just briefly here, what is this "object sea" you're talking about? GA
Bridge ga
Pseudo For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ?
Greg If you want the real details, see Dave Haynie I'm afraid - he's the inventor of that one.
MetalJoe Think of it as a large collection of objects...
Greg Broadly, it's what I was discussing above. Everything's done as an object, everyhthing can be linked, inherited and used by anything else.
MetalJoe representing datatypes, applications, files...
MetalJoe a fully object-oriented environment. If that makes sense :-)
Bridge ga
MetalJoe GA
Greg The filetype thing is probably the best example - everything's automatically done via a severely enhanced datatypes system, making integration far easier.
Greg GA
Pseudo Queue: scones JPJ
scones which software copanies agreed to produce ( special interrest in graphical ones ) GA
Greg Scones: Meaning what? What developers to we have on board?
Bridge I'm not sure I understand the q - if you mean "who do we have signed and comitted to a contract" then no-one at the moment - much too early for that!
scones will u programm everything yourself ?
Greg Scones: No, that's silly. We're not that overambitious ;)
scones or will some 3rd ppl make some software as adobe or
MetalJoe we'll have applicatiosn developers.. but at the moment htose who have signed up are working on the OS.
scones .. ga ( out of knowledge of new comapnies ::) )
scones GA
Bridge In front of you are 3 people from KOSH talking to you - along with us are dozens more directly involved and dozens beyond that with an active interest. KOSH borrows something from Linux here (while not being open source) in that ANYONE can code who wants to - we actively encourage that!
Greg Just that ATM there's no real point in soliciting for developers when we can't show them a system to work for.
MetalJoe It's a case of one step at a time GA
Greg GA
Bridge ga
JPJ In the long run, to sustain the organisation, you'll need sales. What are your plans for attracting developers for KOSH (at least v2) and how do you intend to get driver support? Are the current developers all ex-amiga developers? GA
Pseudo For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ?
Greg JPJ: No, not everyone's an ex-amigan
Bridge Current developers are from a wide range of backgrounds (including Amigans)
Greg TBH, right now we're concentrating on two things - finding out what the users and developers want from a platform, then building it for them.
MetalJoe we have Mac, UNIX, Be, QNX developers...
Greg GA
Bridge Attracting developers will take place at a later stage - we had a very long discussion on the mailing list about this!
Bridge Oops - I should say "attracting developers beyond what we have now"
MetalJoe heheh
MetalJoe rumbled ;-)
Bridge and that what we have now is good *removes foot from hole*
Greg Two URLs to help people - /info/index.html describes KOSH
MetalJoe spot the webmaster ;-)
MetalJoe As for driver support..
Greg while /mailinglists/kgsums.html gives the summaries of the main list
Pseudo For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ?
Greg Prefix both with either http://kosh.convergence.org or http://www.iconimaging.net/kosh/
Greg That should help with several questions in more depth than we can do here.
Greg GA
Bridge Driver support comes in several ways. Firstly someone may say "I need xxx" to work and they write it themselves, secondly they could get someone else in KOSH to do it for them (for some Virtual credits or cash), thirdly KOSH could spot a weakness in an area of drivers and commission someone to produce the items required.
MetalJoe the hosted versions, proposed by Dave Haynie, solves the problem initially - but we will have to obtain support for native device drivers. Fortunately we have many developers who can assist GA
Pseudo For questions about KOSH /msg Pseudo ?
Bridge The reason we are going for a hosted version first is partly (but -not- completely) that we can benefit from not having to write much in the way of drivers.
Bridge g
Bridge ga
Pseudo queue is empty
MetalJoe pseudo: that's either good, or bad ;-)
Bridge OK a question to you listening to this - What do -you- personally or as an organisation want from KOSH, now or in the future?
Bridge Tell us and we *will* take note (I'm logging this to sift through later)
Greg Considering that this is run entirely for the users, developers and retailers - whatever they say, we jump
Pseudo ok, klets go to unmoderated
Greg and it's always good to have some fresh ideas.
scones the system sounds good , wehn u accomplish your goals :)
MetalJoe scones :-)
scones ( sorry fot my english .. i`m only german : )
Bridge yes -when- (not if - I truly believe "when" is the correct term!) we achieve KOSH v1 we will be happy
MetalJoe scones: better than my Deutsche :-(
Greg Scones: Better than my German
Bridge and when V2 comes out even happier - but it won't stop there. To give examples we have been discussing technologies for use in KOSH that won't be with us for decades
Greg We'll roll out v1 when it's ready. No point in setting arbitrary deadlines
MetalJoe yep, I think v1 will be a proud moment
qnxGuiBoy Busy Busy!
Bridge Again - inclusive of ideas, not exclusive
cYB0rG i have certainly missed something , but what is KOSH exactely ? ..
Greg Cyborg - sorry if this sounds dismissive, but look at the website - it can give you a far better picture than we can
_3Demon hi!
Greg And I'm not just plugging my own work - I wrote very little of that.
greenboy good job fellas!
MetalJoe KOSH is a fully object-oriented OS, built by the community
cYB0rG Greg: give the URL plz
MetalJoe greenboy :-)
scones in which directions will KOSH develop ? more internet or graphic ? .. what does it support better ?
ACEini Question: Which Connector does the Blizzard 603e "+" has on the SCSI Side..??
Bridge KOSH is a fundamental change in the way modern computing works. KOSH will *NOT* dictate to you how you should use your computer (kbrd, mouse, etc - anything you want goes), it will not force you to upgrade or leave you stagnated. It *will* provide you with just the complexity that you desire.
Greg two - either http://kosh.convergence.org (UK) or http://www.iconimaging.net/kosh/ (US)
MetalJoe bridge: buzzword compliant ;-)
cYB0rG thx
Bridge Oh yeah - mental note to remember that:)
Greg But bridge is actually very accurate here - we're not just building a desktop system here
Bridge Sorry ACEini I can't answer that:)
ACEini thx :-)
Greg The idea is that, by abstracting _everything_ as objects, you only plug in what you need, so you get the services you want
drHirudo HI AIOeditor ;-)
Greg And not just a pile of stuff that the developers _think_ you need.
AIOeditor hello
Bridge Scones - KOSH will develop where you want it to - either by doing it yourself, commissioning someone to do it for you, or the Kommunity as a whole will move to develop areas as they become necessary
AIOeditor OT : Scotland 0 - 2 England :))))
MetalJoe AIO: blimey
scones is it some kind of second linux ?
Bridge take note of what Greg says - you can plug in what you need. If you don't need it, why pay high prices for hardware that will run things that you don't need?
^ego There's a surprise... NOT
scones but better? :)
Bridge KOSH is VERY very modular!
qnxGuiBoy :)
McDrill hows the show going then? fun, nice?
_bladez_ Bridge: ala AmigaOS?
Greg Scones: No. Linux is just a redeployment of UNIX, which is nice but not perfect.
scones ohh .. never known that :)
Kraftwerk But isn`t KOSH still nothing but Vaporware?
Greg The idea with us is that we want to make something that can be good for all.
Greg Kraftwerk: call us that if you want. IT's got connotations that I don't like, but there's no OS you can run right now.
scones at what price will it be sold and what`ll be the system requirements ? :)
Bridge _bladez_ in a way - but more so that that. AmigaOS programmes still make you do things in certain ways, the ways the programmer saw fit. While toolbars, menus, etc etc can be customised easily (thanks in part to MUI) there is a limit to this
Greg Kraftwerk again- think of us as more at the planning stage.
MetalJoe kraftwerk: vaporware used to mean developments not intended to be produced... we're definitely wanting to produce it
Bridge Kraftwek - KOSH would be vapourware if u had 3 people telling you rubbish about this fake thing. However you have 3 very sincere ppl in front of you that have seen development in KOSH actually happening (hand on heart)
AcidB|[S] KOSH: AOS with Java Support ?
MetalJoe scones: we can't say at this time - we're not aiming to be expensive or restrictive
Greg Scones - it'll be sold at whatever price we feel necessary to cover our costs and allow for future developments - though NOT to pay corporate shareholders
MetalJoe however
Kraftwerk Wanting to produce and actually ever being able to are two different things.
_bladez_ Bridge: ahh .. i see .. and OS which is totally customisable even the GUI
Bridge I'm gonna have a great time summarising this:)
Greg And it'll run on whatever we manage to get it working on. Remember, t's modular though.
MetalJoe kraftwerk: we feel we have the backing to allow us to produce it, as well as the motivation
Bridge More than that _bladez_ not just the OS GUI customisable (we alrd have GNOME, KDE, MUI, etc) but any possible thing in the entire setup
scones ..... i`m learning turbo pascal and c++ in the moment .. will it be of use on the new system? :-)
MetalJoe bridge: enjoy :-)
Kraftwerk KOSH never gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
Bridge right down to what shape keyboard you want (and yes we've discussed this)
_bladez_ Bridge: i see ..just as i thought ..kewl :)
MetalJoe kraftwerk: that's fine :-)
Greg Bladez: Yes :) The idea is to make everything configureable - after all, not everyone needs a GUI so why should they have to run with the cost?
^ego Kraftwerk: Windows never gave me a warm fuzzy feeling, but that doesn't make it vapor
Bridge scones - yes those 2 languages will be of use - KOSH should use all "standard" languages (wouldn't be inclusive if it didn't) as well as others
_bladez_ Bridge: you could easily customise the kernel to suit your needs ..let alone the GUI :)
Greg Kraftwerk: Sure, but that's not our intention. We may fail, but we're going to try and it's going to be fun trying.
MetalJoe No one's forcing KOSH onto anyone.. in a way it goes against the whole philodophy
MetalJoe oops
MetalJoe philosophy :-)
scones ok thx .. everything logged .. gotta go .. bye ppl
MetalJoe bye scones
Bridge _bladez well I probably couldn't configure the kernel - I'm not that much a programmer. However if someone provided me with a tool I can understand at my level of expertise to manipulate the kernel, then yes I could
_bladez_ Greg: sounds excellent.
Bridge Scarey!
Greg Metaljoe is a showoff ;)
MetalJoe aye
MetalJoe *boast*
_bladez_ Bridge: i know what you mean .. playing around with the kernel can get rather technical ;)
Greg But a nice guy with it
MetalJoe it's been a while since I did it though
MetalJoe :-)
MetalJoe excellent
RaM kosh is for new age amiga fags
Greg Bladez - but a) should it be necessary to play with a kernel?
AIOeditor Hey Iliak
Kraftwerk Well. feel free to prove me wrong! In the mean time I`ll be fahr`n, fahr`n, fahr`n auf der Amigabahn.. :)
Bridge _bladez_ exactly - if I want to change a fundamental thing in my setup I should be able to a) do it with command lines, c++, etc etc and the kernel or b) ina simpler way that hides me from things I (because of my non-kernelesque background) find scarey
Greg and b) should it always be comples?
MetalJoe RaM: hehe
^asp^ hi `Ants
Greg Kraftwerk: Fine, doesn't bother us. We're going to have fun trying!
Greg And Greg's a Christian
abrasax modern day system should have a nucleus kernel with well described kbi (kernel binary interface) to make the rest of the layers hw independent
Greg Abrasax - from what I understand of that, definitely.
Bridge We've talked mostly about software here (drivers for HW excluded). Perhaps I should point out that KOSH hardware will become a reality in the fullness of time (no time scale yet folks though)
_bladez_ Bridge/Greg: i see ... i suppose you can take it to the level you can handle it at.
Greg There's not really all that much that should live in the kernel
Bridge yes
Bridge And as your expertise improves you can increase the complexity of the system (almost like increasing the volume of aa speaker)
MetalJoe greg: aye.. monolithic kernels are not good these days. Linux will probably be the last major example IMHO
Greg Bladez - that's the dream :) We'll see what we manage nearer the time, but we're going to give that a good try.
Kraftwerk Will there be a KOSH version that will run on Legacy Amigas?
MetalJoe kraftwerk: well, I'm planning to work on getting KOSH hosted on AmigaOS so yep
Greg Kraftwerk - most seem to want it, so probably. But we're not going to let ourselves be tied down by that as a baseline.
Bridge We have been thinking of a way to automate the complexity with some sort of "Assistant" object (NOT aka office assistant!!!!)
_bladez_ Greg: kewl ... though it would be good to see something tangible, soonish ;)
RaM "OS 3.5 - where did all the appicons go?"
MetalJoe bridge: nooo! no paperclips!
Bridge Kraftwerk - yes if I have anything to say about it!
MetalJoe bladez: you and me both ;-)
Greg We'll try and get _something_ running on AOS, but we're not going to remove features because we can't make them work on an Amiga.
Bridge But I like paperclips *he says with sarcasm*
_bladez_ MetalJoe: hehe
Kraftwerk Good! I have 9 Amigas waiting for a new OS
MetalJoe bridge: yer a strange lad
abrasax metaljoe you have to invoke the hw depended layer somewhere along the road so that is where the nucleus kernel comes into place but things to a level about drivers shouldnt need to be aware of that..
abrasax IMHO
MetalJoe fraftwerk: excellent
Kraftwerk I think there are 9 of them anyway... I lost count. :)
MetalJoe abrasax: aye
abrasax about should be above even..
_bladez_ Greg: you just do like what AmigaObjects do.
zeg i have got one AmigaOs still waiting for a new Hardware.
Bridge BUT because we have chosen to be inclusive of all - then I even suggested we should support (in a cut down way) Spectrum 48ks (and I got taken seriously!)
Greg Abrasax - definitely. The kernel should be the fundamental services. Drivers should be interfaing to it, not in it.
MetalJoe bridge: hmmmm :-)
Bridge Kraftwerk you have too many:)
Kraftwerk 2 of them have PPC`s so give it to me!
MetalJoe 8-bit Beowulf clusters anyone? ;-)
djes There's some cases where it is impossible to interface drivers
Greg Bladez - similar, but more all-encompassing. Mainly because the qhole systems' designed from scratch around that concept, but ther'es other things as well. Again, read the website :)
abrasax greg for driver etc you need very good locking mechanisms and when writing those parts of the os interfacing/ interfering with it becomes a vague area :)
MetalJoe Greg's our webmaster if you haven't guessed...
djes Especially when your hard is old
Greg Abrasaz & Djes - yes, some things are necessary in the kernel een if we might prefer them elsewhere for various reasons. But the idea is to keep it as small as possible.
Pseudo oki
Kraftwerk Do aa Userinfo to check out my Amiga Collection.
MetalJoe djes: yep... supporting old hardware is a tricky problem
_bladez_ Greg: i see as the idea will be instrinsic to the kernel of the OS.
MetalJoe law of diminishing returns and all that
Pseudo We switch to moderated now, since Phoenix is waiting
Bridge If anyone would like a copy of the summaries to read up on what we have discussed (and how far we have got) plz see either the website or email me: kosh@mythicz.u-net.com and I'll send them to you.
djes We must not
Greg Bye!
MetalJoe yep, bye and thanks to everyone
Bridge bye all - thanks:)
Greg Erm, greg@kosh.convergence.org GA
Bridge I'll write up all your comments and KOSH will concsider them
siren Thank you KOSH people.
Pseudo Thx guys for the informations
MetalJoe np :-)

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